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RFP: April 05, 2008 - 06:38 PM PST Another clue that 3D is coming to the big screen, the television screen, gaming and the computer.

DAILY VARIETY
Date: Apr 4, 2008

FIRM SETS SIGHTS ON 3-D

By MICHAEL FLEMING

As DreamWorks Animation, Disney and other studios ramp up production of 3-D films, a newly formed company called D-mented Entertainment has teamed with Ray-Ban maker Luxottica Group and 3-D technological company Kerner Optical to launch a designer line of 3-D eyewear for the masses.

Company is banking on the idea that the public will shell out money for frames that will be higher quality and more stylish than the cardboard tossaways given out free in theaters. The stereoscopically enhanced 3-D glasses will be mounted in Wayfarer frames and should be ready for sale late this year.

The technological production of the glasses will be spearheaded by Kerner Optical founding partner Yuska Siuicki, who thinks designer lenses will eventually become as commonplace as cell phones.

Siuicki predicts consumers will be able to do much more with the lenses than watch the occasional 3-D theatrical release. Videogame makers will begin turning out 3-D games; audiences will watch shows and sports on 3-D television sets; and computer screens will be 3-D capable. Even film library titles will be candidates for 3-D upgrades: Siuicki said Kerner has developed technology to convert 2-D movies and TV shows to 3-D. The conversion cost, $5 million to $7 million for a film, will shrink as demand and technology improve. Kerner is also a partner in SpectonicIQ, one of several 3-D capable TV sets that will hit the retail marketplace this year.

“You will be using these high-end Ray-Ban glasses at home, on your computer and TV, and then you’ll stick them in your pocket and take them to the theater,” Siuicki said. “They are much more comfortable than what is out there now, and the lenses will soon be available in prescription. This space is exploding.”

D-mented, which will spearhead the launch of the lenses into the marketplace, will be run by producermanager Dave Phillips and live event producer Carter Reese.

Kerner is made up of the physical effects division and operating stages of ILM, which Kerner acquired from George Lucas in 2006.

Siuicki said Kerner’s emphasis is to be a 3-D enabler — his team includes “U2 3D” cinematographer Peter Anderson, and Kerner created a 3-D camera system used in that film. Now, Kerner will also focus on the production of glasses to view the product.

### End Article###
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RFP: April 05, 2008 - 12:39 AM PST Thoreaubred and John_O drifted "Isn't Lisa The Best?" into becoming The cinematography thread two months ago. It would never occur to me to discuss the superlatives relevant to "Lisa" in this thread. I believe that would be more appropriate over in "Film vs. Digital" or some such likely place.
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jane: April 04, 2008 - 11:55 PM PST um...yeah.... i didn't think you would be posting why lisa is the best.
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RFP: April 03, 2008 - 09:09 PM PST I know there was a thread somewhere around here where we once briefly discussed 3D media. Probably shortly after BEOWULF came out. I couldn't find that thread so I defaulted to this one:

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THE CANONICAL CINEMATOGRAPHY THREAD
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...which - inexplicably - the fabulous Buzkill (who initiated this thread) decided to call "Isn't Lisa The Best?"

So, to the point.

Last week I saw a great presentation on 3D cinema including 3D VFX pre-vis (amazing stuff), 3D trailers and several sequences from upcoming 3D live action films, at least one of which will be released in July from a major studio. We also were treated to live 3D hi-def video right in the theater coming from a camera set up in the lobby. Couple of things from the presentation seem of possible interest to some of the QL group.

First, several of the presenters made the argument that the current state-of-the-art digital 3D had finally licked all the problems with previous iterations of 3D including the mechanical/equipment problems associated with using film in cameras and projectors (see ** below) and the bad user-experience and image problems associated with using anaglyphic glasses. Because those problems have been solved, the presenters - all of them - predict that this time 3D is here to stay and that we will soon be seeing most of our cinema in theaters in 3D. They said it will be accepted as the natural evolution just as sound and color were accepted. Hmmmmm...seems reasonable.

Second, I've now seen two presentations in the past 4 months of 3D hi-def television. We heard at this recent presentation that this holiday season will see the promotion of 3D HD TV for the first time. There are already over a million 3D-capable HD TVs in homes in America, though most owners/customers don't even know they have it. All Samsung DLP monitors are 3D enabled. Mitsubishi and at least one other manufacturer also have 3D-enabled (DLP?) sets out in the marketplace already. They aren't being promoted as 3D-enabled because there is currently no content for them in 3D mode. But that is going to change this holiday season per the folks at the presentation.

This is not as big a deal 'cause it isn't coming to stores (well, not for purchase) anytime soon, but a couple of people also spoke about "auto-stereo" monitors made by Philips which are being used already for "digital signage" in various commercial venues. I saw one of those monitors last December at the RealD office and I can tell you it is real and does work - 3D from a TV without glasses.

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** Large, unwieldy mechanical dual-camera systems requiring extensive time to setup/align, too heavy/bulky for crane work or Steadycam work or even quick pans, potential for variable density in L/R cams with L/R "delta" artifacts of various types rippling on down through lab, editorial, even in the theater when projectionist might cut out a frame on one side but not the other which really screws up your vision, on and on.
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RFP: February 26, 2008 - 03:25 AM PST
buzkill Said:
By the way RFP, do you think I have a chance of being cast on QL?

Well, buzkill, I haven't read the post about who/what they're looking for. But I did go to your page and watched one of your fabulous videos. I'd have to say if they're looking for one crazy, lovable, funny bitch who is truly everything, and who is not shy in front of the camera, and who can come up with about a zillion expressions, and who can sing (Tho not so well honestly, but I only watched one vid, and I hope you were just playing at singing. You're probably a really great singer. Errr... )) - anyway, as I was saying before I interrupted myself - they'd be fools not to cast you. Good luck. But turn them down and stay in school.
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buzkill: February 26, 2008 - 01:59 AM PST By the way RFP, do you think I have a chance of being cast on QL?
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buzkill: February 26, 2008 - 01:58 AM PST I didn't find out actually.... however i've been taking screen caps and saving my favorite outfits of hers so maybe ill make a video about that. Thanks fo asking! ^_^
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RFP: February 26, 2008 - 01:53 AM PST
buzkill Said:
I wish I knew more about what you guys are talking about.... XD
sigh...

Thanks buzkill for starting such an interesting and long-lived thread. Did you ever find out about the clothes you were asking about?
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RFP: February 26, 2008 - 01:52 AM PST
lukewayne Said:
thank you for the kind words. we had many many setups so it is hard to remembe exactly, but i am pretty sure that for the scene you are describing we used a technique that is called a book light. which involves bounceing a lamp off of a bounce surface (bounce board in this case) and then passing the light through a layer of diffusion. ( i dont remember exactly what we used but if i had to guess i would say it was Hi-lite which is basically simlar to a frosted shower curtian) doing this causes an extra soft light that falls off faster than directional light, however is directional. the lamp we used was either a 650w (tweenie) or 1k open face (red head (means it has no lens))

overall i agree with john strongly that room was very difficult to light however some of my favorite scenes are in that room.

My apologies lukewayne - I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to the credits. I take it you're the gaffer? I'm delighted that you saw my post. I was really impressed with that scene and in fact with a lot of the lighting and cinematography lately. I think part of it is that I'm paying more attention, part that you guys are trying new stuff. (maybe?)

Thanks for the description of the lighting used to key on the ladies there. It made them both look great, added pizazz to the scene, and I bet Lolita really appreciated the quality of that light.
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RFP: February 26, 2008 - 01:44 AM PST
Katy Said:
We love nothing more than talking-shop!
Crossing my fingers for "good numbers" tomorrow.

Well see if you can get someone in the office to post the numbers. I'd love to see them and it'd be fun to see them over time. To the moon!!
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buzkill: February 26, 2008 - 01:25 AM PST I wish I knew more about what you guys are talking about.... XD
sigh...
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lukewayne: February 26, 2008 - 01:07 AM PST
RFP Said:
John_O Said:
....a camera/lighting/cinematography discussion going...

Am I in the correct thread? (How about a button to "move" a post to another - more correcter - thread?)

I probably shouldn't admit that I didn't get around to seeing episode 30 until tonight, but... well, there it is. I liked it - always been a sucker for a bit of the old redemption.

But I want to give a shout out to the gaffer and his boss for the excellent work in the scene where Bitsie is trying to have a conversation with Lolita as she packs to leave. Talk about different lighting than what we usually see. It was like those two ladies were lit up like divas: lovely chiaroscuro - shadowy BG with soft but directional and motivated light on the faces. Damn close to some back/side/rim light even on Lolita with those two bedside lamps. I wondered why the friggin' closet was bright as could be when first we saw it, then later I just wanted to see what instrument was placed in that doorway to give the ladies that gorgeous light.

If you say that it was your standard, light-up-the-room-for-just-about-anything-that-comes-along light, I'll probably cry.

Just so no one thinks I'm being nice: Dude, Lolita could have used a little fill in those deep-set eyes when she was over by the door. I know, wasn't motivated. I'm just sayin'...


thank you for the kind words. we had many many setups so it is hard to remembe exactly, but i am pretty sure that for the scene you are describing we used a technique that is called a book light. which involves bounceing a lamp off of a bounce surface (bounce board in this case) and then passing the light through a layer of diffusion. ( i dont remember exactly what we used but if i had to guess i would say it was Hi-lite which is basically simlar to a frosted shower curtian) doing this causes an extra soft light that falls off faster than directional light, however is directional. the lamp we used was either a 650w (tweenie) or 1k open face (red head (means it has no lens))

overall i agree with john strongly that room was very difficult to light however some of my favorite scenes are in that room.
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buzkill: February 26, 2008 - 12:36 AM PST Damn this thread is still alive?? AMazing... Yayness
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Katy: February 26, 2008 - 12:32 AM PST
RFP Said:
Thank you John and Katy and any other crew/cast who wanders this way.

Thank YOU for being interested! We love nothing more than talking-shop!
Crossing my fingers for "good numbers" tomorrow.
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RFP: February 25, 2008 - 08:03 PM PST I'm really looking forward to seeing the show on the television which I know looks a lot better than my computer.

Never mind all the new folks who'll probably be showing up (already are): the servers better gird their hard drive loins -- the regulars will be all over this place tomorrow night yakking it up. Great fun!

Thank you John and Katy and any other crew/cast who wanders this way.
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jacy: February 25, 2008 - 07:37 PM PST Lisa is not the best...John is! He has such passion and so does the whole crew. Marshall sure knows how to pick them and Melanie too!
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John_O: February 25, 2008 - 07:32 PM PST
RFP Said:
Meanwhile back on Lolita and Bitsie: you were using some directional (albeit quite soft) light on their faces during much of the scene, right? It looked big time different from what we usually see. Or are you saying Jason's magic windows literally pulled those faces up so they popped that much? If so, your gaffer must be wondering why she/he works so darn hard.


Directional, yes. Soft, yes. Different? No. Jason was able to bring her face up a little in the doorway. That's what I was referring to. The scene I thought worked well and i was pretty happy with was the one in Dylan's bedroom where Lolita comes in and sits on the end of the bed. I both scenes I was trying really hard to make it work as though the light was coming from the practicals (trade talk for lamps in the room, seen on camera) in the room. In Lolita's room there was a small table lamp next to the bed, a lamp across the room on the dresser, and the light from the closet. That allowed me to work the light onto their faces almost anywhere but what worked really well was our decision to cover it from the bed side of the room so they were looking into the key light most of the time. But at the same time the trick was not to over do it since the scene was pretty heavy.
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RFP: February 25, 2008 - 07:24 PM PST
John_O Said:
Actually the bedrooms were on the second floor but the building was on a sloped street so that end of the building was higher from the ground so it might as well have been the third floor (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). We had lights on scaffolding that we shot through the windows, but that room was long and narrow and there was one wall opposite the door that had two largish windows and the wall near the desk and closet was a tiny little window farthest from the ground. The sun passed across that room in front of those windows but it was really hard to control. We almost had no choice but to use the natural light and control it with diffusion and flags, because it would have taken a whole other level of grip work (and time) to tent the windows. We also had to be able to go from day to night at any time without a huge turnover.

Isn't that why God invented sets?

I'll be looking for that scene when it comes up on the bigger small screen.

Meanwhile back on Lolita and Bitsie: you were using some directional (albeit quite soft) light on their faces during much of the scene, right? It looked big time different from what we usually see. Or are you saying Jason's magic windows literally pulled those faces up so they popped that much? If so, your gaffer must be wondering why she/he works so darn hard.
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Deanflagel: February 25, 2008 - 07:16 PM PST
John_O Said:
RFP Said:
I saw something on the forum the other day about you guys shooting in an 8-story building before it was occupied. I'm guessing you weren't too high up? Did you end up pumping HMIs through the window or did you have to cheat the window source within the room? That would be painful.


Actually the bedrooms were on the second floor but the building was on a sloped street so that end of the building was higher from the ground so it might as well have been the third floor (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). We had lights on scaffolding that we shot through the windows, but that room was long and narrow and there was one wall opposite the door that had two largish windows and the wall near the desk and closet was a tiny little window farthest from the ground. The sun passed across that room in front of those windows but it was really hard to control. We almost had no choice but to use the natural light and control it with diffusion and flags, because it would have taken a whole other level of grip work (and time) to tent the windows. We also had to be able to go from day to night at any time without a huge turnover.


Oy such Kvetching - can't you just point and click like the rest of us

jk - seriously cool to her how you do that stuff.
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John_O: February 25, 2008 - 07:12 PM PST
RFP Said:
I saw something on the forum the other day about you guys shooting in an 8-story building before it was occupied. I'm guessing you weren't too high up? Did you end up pumping HMIs through the window or did you have to cheat the window source within the room? That would be painful.


Actually the bedrooms were on the second floor but the building was on a sloped street so that end of the building was higher from the ground so it might as well have been the third floor (that's my story and I'm sticking to it). We had lights on scaffolding that we shot through the windows, but that room was long and narrow and there was one wall opposite the door that had two largish windows and the wall near the desk and closet was a tiny little window farthest from the ground. The sun passed across that room in front of those windows but it was really hard to control. We almost had no choice but to use the natural light and control it with diffusion and flags, because it would have taken a whole other level of grip work (and time) to tent the windows. We also had to be able to go from day to night at any time without a huge turnover.
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RFP: February 25, 2008 - 06:58 PM PST
John_O Said:
Jason the color timer has the ability to isolate areas of the frame to color correct them separately. The term is "power windows."

Now that you remind me I believe the guys at eFilm were using that term when I was over there last year. They could do some serious magic.

John_O Said:
Two or three of the toughest scenes were in that room. The scene where Debra packs to leave was started with the room bathed in natural sunlight and nothing else, and finished at night lit entirely with artificial light. That one nearly broke me.

I call that the "Conflict Room." I hate that room. I hate it. I really, really hate it.

I saw something on the forum the other day about you guys shooting in an 8-story building before it was occupied. I'm guessing you weren't too high up? Did you end up pumping HMIs through the window or did you have to cheat the window source within the room? That would be painful.
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John_O: February 25, 2008 - 06:32 PM PST
RFP Said:
My ignorance is complete. What means "magic power windows? Something that caused that luscious light to land on the lovely ladies?

I could easily see "Jason and His Magic Power Windows" as a Saturday morning kids' show, but I doubt if you're talking about a spin off for the (even) younger set.


Jason the color timer has the ability to isolate areas of the frame to color correct them separately. The term is "power windows."

RFP Said:
John_O Said:
...and oddly as a film maker I think there is something very interesting about blocking a character in a doorway but as a cinematographer I got to ask, does the character have to stand in the doorway?

Particularly one set back in a 3 foot square space formed by one of the closet walls? As a cinematographer, what, just restricts your camera placement/movement?


The limitations of the space were the low ceilings and boxy little doorway area and the wideness of the shot and the smallness of the room and the need to be able to pan with the actors as they enter and move around, I sort of painted myself into a corner, so to speak. Two or three of the toughest scenes were in that room. The scene where Debra packs to leave was started with the room bathed in natural sunlight and nothing else, and finished at night lit entirely with artificial light. That one nearly broke me.

I call that the "Conflict Room." I hate that room. I hate it. I really, really hate it.
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RFP: February 25, 2008 - 06:12 PM PST
John_O Said:
... thanks to Jason and his magic power windows...

My ignorance is complete. What means "magic power windows? Something that caused that luscious light to land on the lovely ladies?

I could easily see "Jason and His Magic Power Windows" as a Saturday morning kids' show, but I doubt if you're talking about a spin off for the (even) younger set.

John_O Said:
...and oddly as a film maker I think there is something very interesting about blocking a character in a doorway but as a cinematographer I got to ask, does the character have to stand in the doorway?

Particularly one set back in a 3 foot square space formed by one of the closet walls? As a cinematographer, what, just restricts your camera placement/movement?
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jacy: February 25, 2008 - 05:59 PM PST
John_O Said:
Actually that was one of the toughest scenes I've ever shot for a number of reasons so thanks for the compliments, thanks to Jason and his magic power windows and oddly as a film maker I think there is something very interesting about blocking a character in a doorway but as a cinematographer I got to ask, does the character have to stand in the doorway?


Was it harder than the bus scene?
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jacy: February 25, 2008 - 05:57 PM PST
RFP Said:
Tell me again why we called the cinematography/lighting/directing thread "Isn't Lisa the best?"


Buzzy got hijacked...she just wanted to know about Lisa's clothes.
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John_O: February 25, 2008 - 05:56 PM PST Actually that was one of the toughest scenes I've ever shot for a number of reasons so thanks for the compliments, thanks to Jason and his magic power windows and oddly as a film maker I think there is something very interesting about blocking a character in a doorway but as a cinematographer I got to ask, does the character have to stand in the doorway?